Bean to Barstool
A podcast exploring the intersections of craft beer and craft chocolate.
Bean to Barstool
Tyler Cagwin of Nostalgia Chocolates on Selling Cacao to Breweries
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In today's episode, Tyler Cagwin of Nostalgia Chocolates gives advice for craft chocolate makers on selling cacao nibs and other ingredients to craft breweries. Tyler has sold cacao to many breweries in upstate New York and now in North Carolina, and it's become a substantial part of his business at Nostalgia. Here he walks us through things to consider in advance, how to approach prospective brewery partners, what he presents when he meets with them, how he builds these relationships, and how he schedules cacao roasting for his brewery customers in his regular chocolate production schedule.
This interview is filled with great advice for craft chocolate makers who would like to begin working with breweries.
At the end, we also talk about the newest edition of Nostalgia's Hop Aged bar.
You can listen to my past episode with Tyler here. You can also read a blog post about his Hop Aged bar here, and his work with New York breweries here.
Episode timeline (approximate):
1:00 - Introduction
3:10 - How Tyler got started selling to breweries
6:30 - The knowledge level of brewers in regards to cacao
13:55 - Consistent questions he expects
15:10 - Info he provides proactively
17:20 - Pricing and sticker shock
21:50 - Workflow for providing nibs
23:55 - Marketing and co-branding
28:45- Production schedule considerations
29:55 - Roasting profiles
31:45 - Impact on his own cacao bean orders
35:40 - Providing husks and other ingredients
39:25 - Final thoughts on selling to breweries
42:20 - Hop Aged bar
Check out David's book Pairing Beer & Chocolate: A Guide to Bringing the Flavors of Craft Beer and Craft Chocolate Together.
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Hey everyone, welcome back to Bean to Barstool. If you've been listening to the podcast for a while, the name Tyler Cagwin will be familiar to you. He is the owner and chocolate maker at Nostalgia Chocolates, formerly of New York State and now operating in North Carolina. I had Tyler on the show a couple times several years ago, and I also interviewed him for the Bean to Barstool blog, talking about not only making great chocolate, but his uh collaborations and intersections with the craft brewing world, both for his chocolate bars and also providing ingredients for various breweries in the upstate New York region and then now in North Carolina. If you don't uh exist in and around the craft beer world, you might be surprised to know that North Carolina is one of the absolute best craft beer states in the country. So he is now making chocolate right in the heart of one of the hotbeds of craft beer, and he is working with quite a few breweries around him to supply them with cacao nibs and other uh cacao products for their beers. This is a pretty significant part of nostalgia's business model. So I reached out to Tyler to see if he could give us some advice on things that craft chocolate makers should keep in mind if they want to start working with breweries to be ingredient suppliers and sell cacao nibs and husks and other things like that to breweries. Tyler has a ton of great advice to share in this conversation about things to consider in advance, how to get those conversations going with breweries, how to establish those relationships, how to fit this into your uh production schedule and business uh model and all of that. So a really great conversation with Tyler. I'm so grateful that he was willing to share all this. And if you've been considering making this part of your craft chocolate business, this conversation is the place to start. So here is Tyler Cagwin of Nostalgia Chocolate. Tyler, welcome back to being to Barstool. What have you been up to since the last time we spoke?
SPEAKER_01Well, thanks, David. It's really great to be back. Always love the conversation and all of the stuff you do to help support both the beer and the chocolate industry. So thank you very much. Yeah, it's been a few years. So I moved from um Syracuse, New York, down to a town called Huntersville, North Carolina, which is about 20 minutes north of Charlotte. And I've been here for almost three years now and had the I closed the business for about six months when we moved and then trying to find new space to get reset up and whatnot. So it was closed for maybe six months, but I've been reopened now with a storefront, which I didn't have in Syracuse, as well as the roasting space for um, it was two years back in uh like around Thanksgiving time.
SPEAKER_00Okay, great. Well, you make a range of excellent chocolate bars, both single origin and inclusion. But today what we want to talk about is a kind of side part of your business where you are providing ingredients for the excellent beer scene in North Carolina, ton of craft breweries there. I know you were doing this in New York as well. Let's talk a little bit about how you work with these breweries. So if you're starting from nowhere and you don't have a relationship with breweries, how are you approaching craft breweries and kind of getting them interested in that relationship?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, well, uh, it's certainly easier once you can get your claws into one of them. But when I first got down here, I started reaching out. Like I found a list of all of the breweries that were in the Charlotte area. And I started first going to their websites, trying to get a sense of, you know, are they just IPA? Are they just like, you know, are wheat beers the their main thing, you know, or do they actually brew dark beers and what try I try to get a little bit of information. One, so I wasn't blindly reaching out and just having them say, like, this is nothing, either just ignore me or this is nothing at all that we're interested in. But I also wanted to learn a little bit about the breweries themselves. So I could say, you know, if there was one that they brewed that seemed really interesting, I could be like, wow, this is really cool. I, you know, it'd be really neat to have my cocoa nibs as part of this and just try to start a conversation that way. The return on investment, as far as sending blind messages, is very little, and I think far less here in the Charlotte area than it was when I would reach out to places in upstate New York. And I I think the only reason I can come to with that is just because Charlotte's a very big city, and I'm sure these places are getting inundated with messages of uniforms and paper towels and all sorts of things. You know, I have no doubt. Uh, the other thing that I would also try to do is like reach out to the brewery, and then if I didn't get any response there, potentially the next step would be to try to find the head brewer's Instagram or Facebook and potentially try to reach out that way. So that was kind of where I started. And then from there, um, obviously, if I got response, I would, and they were interested, I would try to set up um a meeting. If I didn't, my next step oftentimes was just to pull together some samples. Um, like I put together little bags of cocoa nibs, and then I always take the accompanying chocolate that I make with it. And so they can try the cocoa nibs and also try the chocolate itself. And so I would just I would just walk in, which again, like not it can be received in one of two ways. And I guess my feeling always was if I am welcomed, then that's probably somebody I want to work with and they're interested. And if I wasn't, then I just move on. I mean, I know that in my store, when I have people come in that are trying to sell me internet or sell me paper, whatever, it, you know, I mean, as much as I appreciate that that's their job and they're trying to do it, it's also a waste of my time. So I try to be very respectful of that and not not really take it personally if it's not well received. But then I just, you know, I try to move on and and and keep going.
SPEAKER_00A lot of breweries that are working with cocoa nibs and don't have a you know craft chocolate source like yourself, they're buying from a third-party source. They maybe don't know a lot about uh cacao at all. In North Carolina, there are a couple other craft chocolate makers that have a significant part of their business that is selling to breweries. Uh, are you do you see any kind of like response like that where they're saying, hey, we actually already have this craft chocolate source? Do most of them fall into that bucket of not really understanding what this is?
SPEAKER_01Well, surprisingly, in the Charlotte area, I've I've actually found more often that breweries had stopped brewing stouts and porters because of the quality of coconut that they were getting. Because there wasn't somebody like myself or Federi or French Broad or, you know, a number of the other smaller makers that are in North Carolina. So they just what they were getting was just so such garbage. And so what I've actually found is that in some in most of the cases, they're very excited to know that I'm around. And one of the things that I tried, once I can make contact, number one, when I take the samples, I try to have that stuff. I mean, I roast in small batches, you know, five to six pounds at a time anyway. So I'm, you know, I'm roasting very small to begin with, but I try to have the samples I'm taking roasted relatively close to when I'm planning to go to drop in to meet or to take them the samples or just cold call or whatever it might be. And the main reason for that is because they're used to getting coconut that are oxidized, that are gray, that don't really have much flavor. Who knows how long they've been sitting around? They might have an origin slapped on them, but the origin means nothing. And a lot of times, just like I don't know much about hops or grains, and I've learned over the years, most uh head brewers, or if you are lucky enough to have a true brew master in your area, they oftentimes don't know a lot about chocolate. I have found the same thing with restaurants, even high-end restaurants, and they just think what falls off the Cisco truck is just what they should be, you know, selling their $15 slice of chocolate pie for. And, you know, I think what the brewery world, more than the restaurant world, I have found, really enjoys the education about it. And so when I can show up and they can open up one of the little packs of cocoa nibs and without them even putting their nose in it, it just is blowing, you know, peach and cinnamon and all these wonderful scents coming off of the cocoa nibs, they're immediately just like blown away. And then their brains are like, oh, and then they I always take, I usually take four different origins. I find that more than that can be a little bit overwhelming and less than that, it would be fine, but doesn't necessarily showcase the value that we as small batch chocolate makers bring. And so when they smell Columbia versus India versus Tanzania or versus Madagascar, you know, it really opens their eyes up and they can say, Oh, like I went, I stopped in at one when I was going out to drop off bars to a new wholesale account, and I had driven by it one time, and I just they have like a little wooden sign at the top of the road down to their brewery. So when I went back out, um, like while I was there talking with the with the two head brewers, uh, they were like, oh man, we wanted to do this uh banana stout, and this would be perfect, blah, blah, blah. You know, so I think it also kind of brings some inspiration into their world, knowing that cacao has different flavor notes and that there's somebody here that can roast it. Oftentimes I'll roast the same day I'm delivering. And I've brought the cocoa nibs when they're still warm. And the brewers always open them up and are just like, this is incredible. So when I go, that's what I do. I take a few sample bags, and what I've also, I take the chocolate, I make small half-ounce tasting bars, and I take those with me as well because I want them, I want, I want the one, it's a nice touch and they enjoy it, but also I want the brewery staff and employees to understand what the chocolate becomes when sugar's added. Because during the brewing process, you know, the yeast and all the starches and all this, like there is a sweetening of the beer that happens. And the cocoa nibs, when they mix with those sugars, not that it's gonna become a 70% chocolate bar, but it will have some effect on the flavor of the cocoa nibs. So, you know, I want them to understand that you know, the India has these sort of flavor notes, so it's gonna potentially impart small bits of that into the beer. The Tanzania, like I had a brewery in back in New York that I used to work with, and they made they made a beer that tasted like cherry coke. And so it was, you know, Tanzania all day long because the tan, at least the way that I roast the Tanzania, it's got a lot of cherry flavor now. So um that's the reason that I take the packages of the nibs and the bars as well.
SPEAKER_00So very cool. So when you finally get that face-to-face time with the brewers, do you find that there are consistent questions that they're often asking you?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think so. Mostly it's about mostly it's just about the different origins and they want to know, well, you know, what do most people use? And, you know, I so there are out of the eight origins that I work with, there's probably three main ones that most breweries tend to turn to. I don't, I'm not exactly sure why. Um, you know, and some of them potentially aren't the best, like Madagascar, probably a tough one to brew with because it's very bright and very citrusy. And um, while it makes exceptional chocolate and is really great in baking certain things, you know, it's not good. It's like for me, I don't like it as chocolate chips for a chocolate chip cookie. It just doesn't, and the same thing. So, you know, there's questions like that that come about, but for the most part, not really. I think they're just excited to be able to have somebody that has this product because they're just not you, they're not used to having that. And it also sets even even if it's a bunch of breweries in the same city, it also sets them apart from breweries that are in neighboring cities or you know, things like that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, no, that's cool. Is there information you've found you need to provide breweries that maybe they aren't aware they need to ask because they don't understand a lot about cacao or chocolate?
SPEAKER_01I don't really think so. I mean, they know so much about what they do. And, you know, I'm not, I think there's only been one time where I was bringing a product to them that that they had never worked with before. You know, I I think a lot of times the questions are just pretty basic, like, here's here's what we're thinking for this beer, and you know, they might say, like, what are your thoughts on on what origin we should use? Or, you know, but they also know how much they're typically going to need. So, no, I mean, I I think at least in my case, I've been pretty lucky. I've learned more from them than probably they've learned from me necessarily, just because there's so much more involved, you know, with learning about the grains and the malts and the the different hops and all, you know, there's just so much more that goes into it. So yeah, I I wouldn't be for people that are concerned about stepping out of their comfort zone and are worried that questions are going to get asked that they don't know the answer to, I would be very surprised if anything like that ever came up. You know, and I've also never, you know, I've been in sales jobs before this, and I've also always been a big believer in if I don't know the answer, I think it's far more professional just to say, you know what, I'm not exactly sure about that. Let me do some research and get back to you. And then get back to them. Not only will it make you look like a better, stronger, more knowledgeable person, but also it gives you another reason to reach out to them again after the first meeting to say, oh, hey, like the next day I got you. I reached out to my friends at so-and-so, and here was their answer. Um, I've had more questions like that come up in working with restaurants, you know, if depending on the formulations of things, but I I haven't found it too much with the breweries.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think there's a trust factor in that too when they see that you're willing to say, I don't know the answer, but I'll find it. They know you're not just BSing them on everything else, you know, making up things that yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_01It definitely definitely adds a big trust, trust factor between the both sides.
SPEAKER_00So yeah. Uh by nature of scale and quality, I'm sure your nibs have a little higher sticker price than what they might be used to on some of the other nibs they're getting. Do you find that there's much salesmanship that has to go into that, or does the product kind of sell itself?
SPEAKER_01I think it pretty much sells itself. I mean, lucky I have more pushback with the restaurants um than I do uh with the breweries. I, you know, it's I I I potentially even I don't I don't think I necessarily need to because I'm just selling cocoa nibs, but you know, they're probably could be sold for a little more than what they are. And but no, so so far nobody has said anything like about the price. I mean, maybe I've had some with the numbers that I've reached out to. It's possible I've had a couple that have just not responded because of that. But I I think my prices are pretty much in line with what is getting charged elsewhere. So at least on a you know, a larger scale situation.
SPEAKER_00So you do provide that pricing even when you're cold contacting the brewery.
SPEAKER_01If they if they ask, I will. Uh I mean I don't usually that is one of the questions that comes up. Uh and but I've never, it's never been a like I don't I don't walk in and say, here are my coconuts, price is $16 a pound. I kind of just let that I let I let them experience the product first. And and I've also found it if there's a way that you know you can have more than just one person involved, you know, that can also be very helpful. So if there's you know, if there's a way to also meet the head of like brewery operations or um maybe even even the if the if it's a brewery that has a restaurant involved or or an events person, I would also try to to to meet with them as well while you're there, because that'll turn into more things down the road rather than just cocoa nibs. And I and I also where I have found the greatest success is once I have gotten one brewery that has purchased the nibs and then followed up and they were very impressed with them, I will ask, you know, are there any other people that you can connect me with? Because that's the way that it'll be a better use of time as you're going forward because you're not spinning your wheels trying to reach out via Instagram or Facebook or emails or whatever, you know, the using the contact forms on the website is completely useless. I don't know where that goes. Um, those might as well not exist. Yeah, totally. So if if you can have, you know, uh, you know, Ed from Brewery, Brewery A email Tony from Brewery C and say, hey, Tony, like, because they all have they all have relationships. And you know, they're also the ones that can say you don't want to, you maybe don't want to go towards this direction, but this group is really, really great. They'd be totally receptive. And there was one brewery here in Huntersville that I worked with, 760 Craftworks, and I asked Brent, the um head brewer there. I was like, you know, I've been trying to reach out to so-and-so. He's like, Oh my goodness, we need to connect you with Fetty at Town Brewing. He's amazing. And Fetty has turned into like one of my biggest supporters. So like he'll I'll just get an email where he's connecting me without me even asking, he's connected me with the owner of a wine bar because they wanted to start selling my tasting, they they were they sell chocolate and other things, and they were looking for a local chocolate person. So that's turned into a new account. And you know, he's connected me with this person and he includes me in this event and that event, you know. So I think, and also the other thing I would say, and it's a little bit of an expense, but when you go in to meet with these people, if you haven't tried their beer before, or even if you I would recommend you try it before you go, but it whether you have or haven't, I always try to buy at least like a four-pack while I'm there, just because I know when when I'm being like when people ask me for things, I'm much more likely to support them if they buy a bar. You know, I get people walking in, oh, we have this this event and that event. Um, you know, there's only so much I can do to give out free stuff. But if you're somebody who will support me and buy something from me, I'm more likely to support you. And I think that that also goes a long way for not only you understanding the brewery and how they brew and and what they're looking for, whether it's a dark beer or an IPA or whatever, but it also shows like that you're gonna be there to support them as well because it's it's a team effort for sure.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, no, that makes sense. So once a brewery decides to buy nibs from you, walk us through a little bit of how that actual workflow goes from there when they need nibs from you.
SPEAKER_01So when I meet with them, I always ask for at least I try to get have them ask, give me two weeks' notice. Just because I because I'm a one-man shop and I have the storefront, I'm usually only roasting like Mondays and Tuesdays. And so if they're gonna need and it as long as they let me know before that, but if they say if they contact me on a Wednesday and they need it Thursday afternoon or Friday, I will make it happen, but it's not ideal, you know, because I also at the end of the day, even though it's just chocolate making, I'm exhausted and I don't want to turn the roaster on and let it warm up for just to roast five or 10 pounds of cocoa nibs. Again, I won't say no because I need everything I can get. But I always, when I meet with them, I try to say, if you can give me at least a week's notice, preferably two weeks' notice, which normally they can because they have a brewing schedule that they're, you know, they're gonna brew this beer this week and this beer next week and blah, blah, blah. Then I know that once all they need to do is just email me the origin and the quantity and then the date that they want it or the date they're planning to drop it in. And I will add it into my roasting schedule as close to that date as I possibly can. So I mean, even if even if the cocoa nibs are roasted a week before, they're still far better than what they're gonna be getting from, you know, the grain wholesaler that's, you know, the malt wholesaler that's also selling cocoa nibs. But I think also there's a lot of especially local breweries that these days love the local connection. So, you know, if they're brewing something with figs or peaches or sweet potato or whatever it is, they want to get those things as local as possible. And then to also be able to say, oh, the cocoa nibs are, you know, from India and that they were roasted up in Huntersville. And, you know, having that connection is sort of a bragging right for these for a lot of breweries.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Uh let's uh sidetrack onto that for just a moment. Do you encourage or request that nostalgia's name andor logo or anything like that goes on to the branding for these beers?
SPEAKER_01No, not no, I don't. I mean. it is it it's it's happened a handful of times and it is a it I mean I don't know if anybody else notices it but it is really cool when the logo shows up on uh you know on the artwork on the can or things like that. So I don't I don't require it but you know if a brewery wants to do it I'm certainly not going to say no just because I don't again I don't think it necessarily I don't think people are looking at it really or if it registers with them or not but it it is just a cool experience to have. I think the one the one thing I wish to to that point about the logo on the can kind of going one step farther one area where I think would be a cool opportunity and one I haven't really done too much with but is taking the time to provide a little more information to the bartenders who are working at the brewery so that again I don't know if it would go in one ear and out the other, but that potentially is another way to build the relationship even more. And if it wasn't a situation where you could sit down with them, one thing you could do and I'm actually thinking this would be a good idea for me to do but you could make up little cards you know with the name of the beer, the origin of chocolate where it's roasted because that's something that a a bartender behind the bar when somebody orders the beer could say oh man the the coconut that were in this beer were roasted up in Huntersville and you know the figs came from one of our owner's farms or yards or you know so it's just one next step of of education. And what I learned not too long ago is that a lot of these brewery the the head brewers oftentimes started as bartenders in the brewery. And they just every so often there's one person that just wants to learn a lot of stuff and then they move up the ladder. So you just never know when there is going to be somebody that will be into that knowledge.
SPEAKER_00Well and at the point of service it takes so little to hook a customer just a like one detail like that can take this from being something that tastes good to now something that they're curious about. It does not take much.
SPEAKER_01For sure. Yeah and if if if it's a customer that's set that's at the bar saying oh I'm deciding between XYZ beer and ABC beer you know that's a situation where the bartender could be like well in ABC beer blah blah blah and the the the cocoa nibs were grown in Costa Rica and have flavor notes of this and it really brings a nice addition.
SPEAKER_00Yeah absolutely is there anything you do or anything that can be done on the storytelling side and when you see one of these beers comes out that you know your nibs are in do you share that story on Instagram or anything like that?
SPEAKER_01Oh I I always do for I mean for a handful of reasons. One because it potentially can draw in another brewery that might reach out to you because they all sort of follow each other. If there's a way that if the brewery's going to release a post about it or or if you're going to get get their okay but make them co-creators or whatever it's called so then your post or their your post either shows up on their feed or their post shows up on your feed. Oftentimes the person that's doing the social media especially if you if they want to have a say in what's set or whatever it's easy for them because it's one less post they need to do and for you it's one less day you need to post something. So I I absolutely do and what I'll what I'll also usually do is go in and take a photo with the chocolate bar that is those cocoa nibs and I will use that as my post so that the bar is kind of broken up or and even the um one of the breweries here we we kind of put the chocolate piece into the beer um so it was like sticking out so there's a lot of like fun things you can do and then yeah so 100% I mean I brag about that as much as I possibly can and also I mean the only breweries that I go to or purchase anything from are the ones that support me. So it's just again a it just as many ways as you can to deepen the relationship and make you know they used to um the company I worked for in like real life job, they always said like the more products that one place has the stickier they are you know the more that they're gonna know you and turn to you. And I think the same is true in this situation the more value you can provide above and beyond just a you know a five or 10, 20 pound bag of cocoa nibs, you know, the the better off you're going to be.
SPEAKER_00Yeah it definitely makes you more valuable because you're also potentially bringing your customers now to that beer as well. Absolutely 100% yeah well you just mentioned different sizes of bags uh you you roast five to six pounds at a time you said and I know some of these orders might be significantly larger than that. How does this have to work into your schedule do you have to make significant adjustments for some of these larger breweries?
SPEAKER_01Yeah well I I've only I've only had one that was like really big for me and that was that was back in Syracuse I had one brewery that ordered I think 50 pounds of coconut and that was a lot of roasting because you know if you're roasting five and a half pounds of beans there's probably at least a pound of loss once you winnow and lose the shell and the weight of you know whatever else gets lost there. So yeah that that could certainly take time I you know to be to be completely transparent I wish the orders I was getting were bigger than they are now. I think being in the south it's the runs of dark beer are smaller just because our weather down here is so much warmer than you know in Syracuse you had I don't know four months of heavy winter and you know a few shoulder months that are winter ish. So it was just a much longer dark beer sort of season. So you know but it's a little more of a numbers game with the breweries here trying to have more to compensate for that part of it.
SPEAKER_00So is there anything you do from a roasting profile standpoint that is different when you know this is going into beer or is that something you're consulting with individual brewers on I don't change a thing.
SPEAKER_01You know my roast profiles are what they are I roast so that ultimately when I'm making the chocolate, I love bright fruity chocolate. You know, I know people that don't they like the more nutty chocolate. So we all have our own things which I which is one of the really great things about our little niche of the industry. But also I think the breweries are choosing cocoa nibs I think one of the best value ads is that what they're going to buy on a wholesale level is just going to be dumpy chocolate which you know when the cocoa nibs were roasted for the most part they were probably roasted to the point that all flavor note was taken out. So when I go to meet with these places that's one of the really cool things is there you just see their eyes explode and they just are blown away at the um flavor profiles and the flavor notes and all of that sort of stuff that goes into the chocolate world like knowing that you know India versus Madagascar versus Tanzania just knowing that they all taste very different really just blows people's minds. And to me that seeing that happen which again is another reason why I bring three or four different origins I I want that to also come through in their beers. I don't want it to be a situation where it they're just look looking for just a chocolate. I want them to say oh well this India has a little bit of a peach note and that would be really good to help accentuate the sweet, I don't know, the sweet potato or the whatever I want I want that to be part of what their thought process is.
SPEAKER_00Yeah for sure is this a significant enough part of your business or do you anticipate it becoming such that this is impacting your bean ordering in terms of your your long-term plans on how much you need to order of this or that origin?
SPEAKER_01I mean it's not as big as I would like it to be you know I I think the brewery the beer world is kind of in a weird situation right now where there's just a plethora of other options out there. I mean I'm a I'm a bourbon beer and wine person. You know like those are the those are my drinks. Nothing's ever going to change that. So I'm a big believer in the work that these craft breweries are doing. I think it's more than just you know your Budweiser Miller light coors light it's really an amazing art that these breweries come up with. With that being said though I think a lot of um a lot of breweries have sort of taken a back seat to the dark beers or put those sort of on the on the back seat or back burner for the time being and and hopefully that will start to change because I would love I would love this to become a bigger part of my business. You know last year I probably I probably added maybe even on a small scale I probably added three or four new breweries to what I have been doing. And you know I think was less than what I had wanted to given the numbers that are here. But you know I think I've tried to one now that I have a you know now that I have maybe six or seven that periodically order for me I'm trying to use them like I said earlier to network into some of these other ones. And so it's just a it's it's a more organic way to build the business but it's a slower way to build the business because I'm just not hounding you know emails and you know driving around town all day long trying to just drop off samples and whatnot. So you just got to kind of figure out what is the most efficient way for you to try to build that part of the business. But I do think it's an extremely important one if people have the ability to be able to roast even for just a few breweries I I think it's to bring that to further spread kind of the magic of what chocolate is really is I I think you know it's it's going to take all of us to to build that ship and create more awareness in the brewery industry.
SPEAKER_00Yeah for sure. Do you deliver these orders directly to breweries? Do you ever ship to to breweries?
SPEAKER_01Well if it's far away like if if I still I don't have too many I wish I wish I was able to maintain my ones back up north. I have more restaurants I ship blocks of chocolate to than I do breweries that still use my cocoa nibs but I'll obviously I'll I'll ship there or if it's someplace that's you know out of town. But if it's in town I always e even with the blocks of restaurant chocolate I always prefer to deliver I like to be the face that's handing them off and especially at a brewery then I can stop and grab a beer or sit down with the head brewer or whoever is there and just kick back and catch up and you know again deepen that relationship. So I you know I mean the cost of it costs less to drive and deliver it than it would to ship it. And if I can try to save customers money whenever possible I always even if it might cost me a few bucks I always try I think for for a number of reasons I would always encourage people to to deliver them yourself. I mean the hardest part is is walking in the first time. So once you've once you've done that and you've got the relationship the rest of it's just fun. Like sit down and and and like I just did a beer and chocolate pairing event with one of the breweries here. And you know that came about just because I was in there hanging out with them and we were just throwing ideas back and forth and I said well how about we do this and they said oh my goodness that would be absolutely incredible and it was a it was a great event and they want to do it again. So I just think those sorts of warm walk-ins the more of those you can have the better off you're gonna be I love that uh we've talked about nibs this entire time uh have you had any luck with like husks or other ingredients yeah husk I yeah there's a f there's a couple breweries and I always pitch that too because I I I charge five dollars a pound for the husk if I'm not giving if I'm not sending it off that way unfortunately now it's gonna be waste I used to give it to a farm that I would get my meats from back up north but I haven't found a place like that down here yet. So I would love to find more use for it. I just haven't at this time. But if I you know I try to keep it cheap but it is still part of the product so if I can make a few bucks on it I try to um but I always in the initial meeting I always pitch that because I want them to know that they're if they need that extra punch of chocolate that husk is also a very inexpensive option and one that they should consider. And also from one of your earlier podcasts I believe that this the woman who ran this chocolate shop down in maybe Clearwater.
SPEAKER_00Oh yeah uh Ratza.
SPEAKER_01Ratza I think she may have closed but in one of your podcasts it's always stuck with me I'm pretty sure it was with her she did some work with breweries and she there was a brewery down there that was using the husk in maybe wheat beers or something like that. So I always just try to throw other ideas out there because that's something that's extremely rare and you know something that even if they wanted to just do a small test run I'm like if you want to do a test run with NT out goes I'll just give you some and see what happens and if it works and you want to do more with it then we'll deal with you know then we can do pricing from there. But yeah I always I mean anything that I can possibly sell I always I always try to so yeah no that's great. Uh is there anything else you think would be beneficial for a chocolate maker to think about before they get into working with breweries well yeah we also touched briefly maybe when we were just chit chatting beforehand but we talked a little bit about um some of the bars that I've made so for some of the breweries that I work closely with I've taken the coconut nibs back after they've finished with them. So they've soaked in the beer they pull them out put them in a plastic bag but one thing I I would say is I I I do my own label design and so just because I can't afford a designer um so in those instances I've taken the coconut nibs back and I've made different bars and so that's another thing that can be super cool not only for you to be able to sell but also for the brewery to be able to have and sort of brag about is and then take make a small run of some sort of chocolate whether it be dark chocolate dark milk milk whatever you know you might want to do because it's a really cool experience for beer drinkers and a really great addition to your lineup that you will potentially only be able to do once with that exact thing because they may not ever brew that beer again first of all but if they do it probably won't taste exactly the same. So it's it's it's a cool sales thing where you can say once these are gone they're gone. So get them you know if you like it grab a grab a few of them because they won't be here for too much longer. But what you know I would also you know once you're comfortable with delivering the cocoa nibs and that part of it and and you have the capability to do this I would also offer to say hey let me take those back because they're just going to throw them out. So when I and oftentimes they will then wholesale or you know buy wholesale a number of the bars. And so what I'll do is I'll give them a discount when I go back and sell them wholesale but it's also another great income stream for you because then you've got a new bar that you can sell and something new to post about and talk about. So I would also just after you've again gotten in with the brewery and they've placed an order I would just keep that in mind as well. But it's a great it's a great outlet it um especially if you're a beer drinker it's a really fun way to utilize the work that you're doing and and help educate more people about about the industry.
SPEAKER_00Yeah I love that and it's such a cool continuation of the story. Anytime I've been leading a tasting with beer or spirits infused bars and specifically it is nibs that have been reclaimed from that process everybody is always so excited about it because even if it does there definitely is a flavor influence versus just soaking the nibs in the finished product. But even if there weren't there's something like in the mind that just latches onto that and gets so excited about the idea that this was this actually went into this you know rum or stout or whatever it is. It's so cool. Yeah for sure in a previous episode you and I talked extensively about your hop aged bar the last thing I want to talk about is are we going to see that bar again? What's the status there?
SPEAKER_01Uh well yes we will it's been off I actually don't think I've made it since I moved to North Carolina. So it's it's been off for quite a while. Main reason was my friend Chad who was um the one the person who I got the fresh hop cones from they stopped I believe at least for the last season had stopped growing at his like farm there. They were just doing the processing. So I had been hesitant to go to hop to go to the pelletized hops but I did do a small just like I don't know six bars with some pelletized hops that I got from one of my head brewer friends here in Charlotte and did that. And so it will and it that actually ended up coming out pretty nice. Not quite as strong as the essential oils from the fresh hop cones but good enough that I want it to be back in the lineup. So yes it it will be um I'm going and I the other issue was I was out of the Tanzania beans and being a small company you know you've got to figure out where the money's gonna come from to pay for this batch of beans or that batch of beans and what's going to be the priority. So um I had run out of the Tanzania beans which I do a lot of I have probably four different bars I use them for as well as baking chocolate and all sorts of stuff. Got those back and I have some of the pelletized hops and so I'm hoping this week to make the bars and then I age them for at least three weeks and so hopefully um yeah they'll be back soon.
SPEAKER_00Awesome.
SPEAKER_01I will keep an eye out to see when those are released I gotta grab some new ones it's been a little while I haven't had the bar and it has been yeah it's been a couple years probably since I've had that up yeah so I'm excited to have it back because it is one of my it's a really really cool bar and one of my favorites that I make.
SPEAKER_00So yeah I'll look forward to it. Well Tyler thank you so much for sharing your knowledge with us today.
SPEAKER_01Yeah it's great to be back.
SPEAKER_00Thanks for reaching out really great thoughts there from Tyler uh really grateful to him for coming on and sharing all of his insight and experience in working with breweries. Even though the relationships that Tyler has with the breweries that he's working with to supply them with nibs and other products aren't actually official collaborations, even though they easily could be if you're uh considering the similar business relationships that he's talking about, those could potentially be turned into branded collaborations. But even though the relationships he's talking about are not a lot of what we talked about in the Collaboration for Chocolate Maker series that we just wrapped up still applies here. Tyler does his research in advance before he reaches out to a prospective business partner. He reaches out to them personally and establishes a relationship and he works to be a good business partner. He handles some of the marketing he provides education he supports their business he is flexible when he's able to be in terms of meeting their schedules, making deliveries, things like that. A brewery that meets with Tyler or with you if you're a craft chocolate maker is going to realize very quickly that the quality of ingredients you can provide them is likely better than what they're getting currently but the things that Tyler does to go out of his way to make this a positive experience for these breweries that are potentially buying from him is going to cement those relationships. It's going to make them want to continue working with him. It's going to make them want to tell their buddies in the brewing industry about this great company that they get their cacao nibs from so all of this is not only just a good way to do business and a good way to you know to be a good person and good community member but it is also a smart decision from a dollars and cents standpoint. This is going to help solidify those relationships and potentially lead to more business with that brewery or other breweries down the road. So great advice from Tyler there. I'm going to put links to the past episodes and blog posts that have involved him in the show notes so you can check those out if you want to you might be surprised if you're a craft chocolate maker how receptive breweries are to what you have to tell them and potentially becoming an ingredient supplier. A lot of breweries uh probably the vast majority of breweries in the United States work with cacao nibs at some point for either ongoing beers or more commonly special release seasonal beers and a lot of them don't know much about chocolate. So they're just reaching out to their main ingredient supplier who gets them their malts or hops and and other things that they need a big uh ingredient supply company and saying hey we're gonna brew a beer with cacao nibs can you send us X amount and the nibs that they're getting are from a few different sources usually they are sourced ethically but because of the size of the uh the the needs of those ingredient suppliers they have to order in enough quantity that a lot of times those nibs are sitting in warehouses for an extended period of time and are not anywhere near as fresh as what you or as we just heard nostalgia can provide them. So if you can just get in face to face and show them uh what you can do, let them smell and taste uh the nibs and the chocolate, you're probably going to surprise them in terms of what is available at not necessarily much more cost and and what you're able to provide beyond just the That freshly roasted product is probably going to be enough to sway a significant number of breweries. If you're not sure where to start, reach out to whatever your closest brewery is, follow the advice that Tyler gave in our conversation and just, you know, let them know that you're interested in this and what you can provide and see where that goes. And then use all the advice that Tyler provided if you want to make this a bigger part of your craft chocolate business. On the subject of chocolate beer, the Brewer's Cup of California just announced its 2026 winner. So I want to share the relevant winners from that that tie in with what we're talking about on Bean to Barstool. In the chocolate beer category, gold went to Burning Barrel Brewings Burning Bellsnickel. This is a bourbon barrel-aged imperial stout made with vanilla and marshmallows, as well as Ecuadorian cacao nibs. Now I'm not sure what the source is on those nibs, just the origin is what they share. I was introduced to Burning Barrel at a bottle share in Georgia, of all places, last summer and had their Nochino Imperial style, and it was absolutely fantastic. So I'm sure Burning Bell's nickel is great as well. Silver went to Solano Brewing Mamarosa. This is a Champerado-inspired beer made with cocoa powder. Again, no source on that one. And bronze went to San Diego Night Scenes by San Diego Brewing. I know very little about this beer, just that they're using cacao nibs and Madagascar vanilla. If you've had any of those beers or have any more insider information on what they're doing in terms of sourcing, I would love to hear about it. In the coffee flavored beer category, gold went to Cafe Americano by Urban Roots. That same beer just won gold at the World Beer Cup in the coffee porter or stout category, so it's on a bit of a streak. They are using Temple Coffee Roasters Dharma Espresso Roast. Silver went to Aetna Brewing Yakacino Coffee Vanilla Stout. Now this beer sounds great. Unfortunately, it is pretty clearly using AI-generated label art, which gets a boo from me. Pay artists, please. Bronze went to Crow and Wolf Brewing Odyssey. And then in Dessert Stout, gold went to Flatland Brewing Year 10, which is made with coconut, hazelnuts, almonds, pecans, vanilla beans, and coffee. Silver went to Moxa Brewing Pastry Mode. We had Moxa on here, I think, last year to talk about their pastry stouts and working with cacao and vanilla. I'll put a link to that in the show notes. Pastry mode is made with hazelnut coffee, four different origins of vanilla and coconut. And then finally, bronze went to Hop Secret Brewing, What We Drink in the Shadows. Great name there. Made with cacao nibs and hazelnuts. No origin or source information on those nibs. Finally, as you heard uh in the mid-roll ad in this episode, Final Gravity Issue 12 is out now. So check that out if you're interested in a different kind of print beer publication that focuses on personal human-centered stories. Last thing, uh, Mackenzie Rivers, my friend of the former Map Chocolate, announced recently that she is launching a snail mail chocolate club that will feature a zine, a physical print zine. And optionally, you can have your subscription include chocolate as well. So you can check out her website or Instagram, sign up for her newsletter, and check out that uh subscription club. I will definitely be doing that as well. Thanks to all of you for listening. Thanks to Tyler for coming on the show today. I hope you enjoyed this episode of Bean to Barstool.